Post by CosmoPost by IgorPost by CosmoSorry had to correct the quotation. A former ambassador who speaks Arabic
had said the quotation correctly on the news this evening.
Looks that Osamma is a Micheal Moore fan. Glad to see the money he took
from terrorist allowed Bin Laden to see Farenheit 9/11.
I think he is a major Bush fan, business partner and close family friend.
Bush got his family out of the country.
These people had no connections to Bin Laden and had disowned him. They
left on a day when many others who had been cleared left.
That is the story the state department told you. These people have a sense
of family that is a bond, he was never disowned. Ill prove it. After 9-11
the state depratment said they had proof that Bin Laden called his mother
and said he would be gone for a long time? Both state dept stories that
contradict each other, he was disowned, but he called his mom. I have swiss
cheese with less holes than that sorry story.
Proof!! You heard it on the internet. That is proof. Conflicting stories
but you have proof he called his mom. Disowned children do contact their
family on occassion.
Post by CosmoAnd, the US goverment rounded up hundreds of Arab americans, Doctors,
business men and students, detained them and questioned them, some have
never been released, but the family of Osama was never held, detained or
questioned.
Proof? A citation? Did you see this in Micheal Moore's movie. Many
people were allowed to leave that day. It was the first day the
administration let people who had been cleared leave. Bush did not let
Bin Laden's relatives leave before anyone else.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5251769/site/newsweek/
"Saudi flights out of the United States. The movie claims that in the
days after 9/11, when airspace was shut down, the White House approved
special charter flights so that prominent Saudis—including members of
the bin Laden family—could leave the country. Author Craig Unger
appears, claiming that bin Laden family members were never interviewed
by the FBI. Not true, according to a recent report from the 9/11 panel.
The report confirms that six chartered airplanes flew 142 mostly Saudi
nationals out of the country, including one carrying members of the bin
Laden family. But the flights didn't begin until Sept. 14—after airspace
reopened. Moreover, the report states the Saudi flights were screened by
the FBI, and 22 of the 26 people on the bin Laden flight were
interviewed. None had any links to terrorism."
Screened by the FBI and they left after the airspace ban was lifted.
Micheal Moore is a liar who is trying to stir up nutcase conspiracy
theorist.
Post by CosmoPost by IgorDo you think the US should have held them hostage and sent pictures to Bin
Laden of Navy seals with guns to their heads demanding Bin Laden surrender
or they will behead them?
No. I never considered that. Navy seals? You came from distnat right field
with that. You have a vilolent imagination.
No imagination. This is exactly what the terrorist do. They take
pictures of guerilla fighters with guns to people's family members and
threaten to behead if they do not do want they want. I am simply asking
do you want the US to act like terrorist.
Post by CosmoPost by IgorThere have been close ties to Saudi Arabia since the 1930's
We used to be enemies with germany and japan, but no lioner are, so what
does the 30's have to do with things. The world has changesd slighly since
then. Ancient history.
No it is not it shows continual relationships under many
administrations. It is ancient history to you because it does not fit
your viewpoint.
Post by Cosmowhen Aramco
Post by Igorwas formed. Prince Bandar and the other high ranking Saudis had the same
relation with Clinton.
Impossibe, Billl Clinton is not an oil broker. Bill Clinton was active in
the middle east peace process, so he knew them all. Bill Clinton did not
have an oil relationship, but a diplomatic one, so don't say it;s the same,
thats just stupid.
Clinton had just as strong an oil relationship with Saudi Arabia. Do not
think for a moment another oil embargo would not send our economy
spiraling down. Saudi has control over a good percentage of resources
and has influence in OPEC. Venzuala is the second largest and every
president since the 1930's has been very careful about the relationship
with that country to. FOR THE SAME REASON.
Post by CosmoThe US knows Saudi could hurt us bad by cutting
Post by Igorof oil or they could help us by influencing OPEC.
So, you admit bush took it easy on them for their oil.
No relations are important. The Saudis have not directly sponsored
terrorism. There is no reason to impinge on them. If you think Bush took
it easy on them then Clinton did too.
Post by CosmoJust because 15 high
Post by Igorjackers were Saudis does not mean the Saudi government played a role in
the attacks.
I can't belive you said that. You and two other people still believe that.
Hers why that's dumb. Saudi Arabia is a part of State sponsered terror.
Proof. You are talking out your backside here.
Post by CosmoIt's no secret, so 15 terrorists come from the state of state sponsered
terror, and you dismiss that as coincidence. You're either a crazy or just
in total denial.
Yeah the US government sponsored Timothy McVeigh and Nichols guy. Just
because they were responsible for Oaklahoma and their group was made up
of Americas must mean that Bill Clinton sponsored the Oklahoma city
bombing. Let me guess because people from Arkansas do not like people
from Oaklahoma. This is absurd.
Prove the king, the crown prince, or any Saudi offical supports Bin
Laden. You are such an idiot you do not know that BIN LADEN HATES THE
SAUDI GOVERNMENT AND WANTS TO BRING IT DOWN. BIN LADEN BELIEVES THE
SAUDI GOVERNMENT GIVES INTO THE US. The highjackers did not like the
Saudi government much more than the US. Bin Laden broke from Saudi
because they supported the US in the Gulf war. He believes the US is
trying to take over the region and the Saudi government is helping them.
He does not like the fact American military are covertly stationed in
Saudi under the auspices of the Saudi government. The Saudi airforce is
US pilots and US planes. We sold them the planes but we also provide the
pilots. The largest US airforce base is outside of Dharhan.
Post by CosmoThat is a stupid as saying just because John Walker Lynn
Post by Igorand Adam Gardhan are Americans and part of Al Qaedea that the US
government is supporting Al Qaedea or that because McNichols was an
American that the government encouraged him to bomb the Federal building
in Oaklahhoma city.
No, because the USA is not a purveyor of State sponsered terror, Saudi
Abrbia, Pakitan and Afghanistan are.
Prove the King or the Saudi government has financed ANY terrorist
organisation. Just because your monthly conspiracy theory news letter
says the Saudis sponsor Bin Laden does not make it so. Bin Laden hates
the Saudi government and would like to see it replaced.
Post by CosmoPost by IgorPost by Cosmo12,000 troops in Afhganistan, but 140,000 in Iraq.
No resources were diverted.
What?
Tommy Franks has confirmed this.
What does that have to do with troop strength. So you are saying 12,000 can
do the job of 140,000?
Post by IgorSurprisingly 140,000 regualr troops is not more effective than a few
special forces guys.
That's total bullshit. Im an old soldier, tell that shit to a rookie.
Were in the special forces? Do you know there training is much different
and the roles they play on the battlefield are different. This is not
WWII were the rangers go up front. A modern military knows how to use
the special characteristics of special forces to full advantage. Why do
you think they call them special forces? Because they recieve special
training and they use special tactics. A normal soldier is not trained
the same way. Tell a Ranger some day that he has the same training as
everyone else and see what response you get.
Regular army units are not trained for these operations. They never have
been.
But it
Post by Cosmois not surprsing to realize you just made one of the dumbest statments about
militray force of all time. I woul'd be interested to know your service
experience. because with that stament it looks limited to movies and games.
Thst funny, you have no conception of 140,000 troops. Picture 4-5 super bowl
crowds and you will still be short. LOL,. I can't believe you said that.
Specail forces are efficient in special operation, but it takes man power to
guard internatinal borders, and keep them supplied. Chrsi, are you guys this
ignorant? Trying to bullshit an old soldier like me.
What difference does it make if 140,000 troops guard a border. At that
number you have huge gaps in the Pakistan/Afghanistan borders. They do
not have training or equiptment to do things like climb mountains and
find non obvious passes. 140,000 troops on a border mean they are
sitting around twiddling their thumbs chatting about what they will do
when they get home not looking for someone. Osamma could pass right
through a checkpoint without anyone knowing. He could hop on a donkey
and go through a mountain pass that modern military veicheles can not
get to.
It takes special forces with equiptment, training, and experience in
tracking and extraditing scumbags like this to pull the job off. Not
someone who completed basic and gets wants to get back home. I do not
mean the knock the common soldier. They have good training at what they
are trained to do. They are most effective fighting force in the world.
The problem is they are not trained to hunt one man. They are trained to
fight an army. They are not trained to patrol borders or be police men.
They are trained to engage an enemy ARMY and destroy it.
Specialized froces are trained to hunt one man.
Post by CosmoBin Laden is not out in the opening walking around
Post by Igoron the streets or in some huge compound that is hard to miss.
How do you know that? If Bush does not know where he is, you don't. He has
bad kidneys, he has to have frequent dialysis. he is visible somehwere.
You don't think he could not have bought a dialysis machine and a
private doctor to take care of him where he is hiding? Oh course he
would not have the money to do that would he?
Post by CosmoThis is a
Post by Igorspecial forces operation.
It takes manpower to cover boaders special operations. Let me set you
straight. You watch to many action movies.
Cover borders? We can't even stop tens of thousands of illegal aliens
from crossing our borders with much more than 140,000 border patrol
guards. Why the heck do you think 140,000 men patroling a border can
stop 1 man. How do you even know he would cross a border. You need
trackers with specialized equiptment. That means recon units and special
forces not common soldiers.
Now in Iraq you had a traditional war. There is the army it is too big
to miss. We know the army we know where it is. The goal is to engage the
Army and break its will to fight. That is what a common soldier is
trained to do and did effectively.
Post by CosmoIf you were going to guard or protect the Afhgan/Pakistan border, that is
not a special forces operation.
Nor would it work. The US can not stop 10,000 of thousands illegal
aliens from coming through. How will border patrols stop 1 man.
Thousands of SS and Nazi war criminals slipped right passed over one
million soldiers patroling Germany's border after WWII. One man can
easily do it. Some of them popped into US military veicheles such as
truck distributing stars and stripes. These veicheles were not searched.
Border patrols are easy to pass.
Post by Cosmois a mass miliiraty operation. I'll give you
an example. Between the Pkisatn and Indian border, between the tw, they keep
1 million meb depolyed. Now, tell ne some of your GI joe spec op stories.
And how many people are actually stopped from crossing the border? Many
still cross between the borders. Hundreds of thousands patroled East
Germany's borders. They even had a wall and miles of wire. People still
got over to the west.
Post by CosmoThere are more special forces in Afghanistan
Post by Igorthan Iraq. You need special forces that can blend in and do things like
ride horses into areas veicheles can not reach. To catch Bin Laden you
have to practice unconvential warfare that is what special ops are trained
to do.
That's special operations nitwit, not guarding the border to prevent passge.
Which is completely ineffective. NO POWER EVER HAS STOPPED UNWANTED
TRAFFIC THROUGH PATROLS.
Post by CosmoYou can ride horses. you can blend in, but that will not prevent safe
passgae of intetntional terror between Pakistan and Afgahnistan.
Perhaps not but these people know how to track the terrorist and take
them out. If the terrorist slipp into the Pakistan border Special ops
can track them and get them. If they slip past the border patrol no one
ever knows or cares. Once someone passes the border those soldiers are
no longer responisible.
Post by CosmoAnd, there
are not that many in Agfhnistan anyway, Riding horses and gathing intell is
your a big part of your imagination.
Yeah right. You know what the seals and Rangers are doing there and I do
not.
Post by CosmoYou know who really makes the bulk of our troops in Afganisatn? Mortar men.
Artillary, armor truck drivers, and grunts on who patrol. Ill tell you
something else about the 12,000. Many of then are support personel. Supply,
mess, clerks, etc. it's called Logistics.
Try the Northern Alliance. Afghanistan was Kosovo again. The US put very
troops in to support the northern alliance. There were never more a few
dozen on the ground. The Northern alliance did the bulk of the fighting.
Most special forces were ground observers who directed air strikes. This
gave the Northern Alliance the edge to finally defeat the Taliban. The
US never made a significant troop contribution to Afghanistan. From day
1 until now it has been a purely special ops mission. Special ops were
sent to assist the Northern alliance and hunt Bin Laden. Where do you
think the info for airstrikes on Bin Laden's caves came from. Men on the
ground giving info on where to bomb.
Post by CosmoFor evry operation, there is a Logistic command. When I was in Vietnam, the
1st Logistic Command was at Long Bihn, it supplied the 1 Corp. And it was
huge.
An army canot operate without soldiers logistics, it's the meat and potatos
of any military. Soldiers need to be fed, clothed, re-supplied and they
need to be rotated for rest. So how many of them do you think ride horses?
Out of 12,000, a handfull. Your head is in the sky. Ever been to war? If so,
you would know what goes on behind the scene requires as many men as the
front does.
This is true. You are proving my point exactly. To hunt and track down
an enemy hidding in caves you can't go in with trucks and M1 Abrahms.
You have to use primitive technology so you can traverse rough terrian.
One million men would not be more effective. A large portion would
logistics and only a small fraction would have the training and
equiptment necessary to go into the mountains and hunt down Al Qadea.
A bunch of guys in tanks and Bradleys does little because the tanks nor
the Bradleys can go into the rough terrain and get where the enemy is.
You need special forces for that. A handful of special forces who have
the equiptment to track and go anywhere is much more effective than one
million men who can not enter the mountains in their veicheles and do
not have the gear to cross the mountains. You need mountain units and
special OPs. The US HAS NEVER HAD MORE THAN ONE MOUNTAIN DIVISION AT ANY
POINT IN TIME.
Post by CosmoPost by IgorI mentioned Micheal Moore because Osamma's reference about the goat came
from the scene in Moore's movie.
No, the goat thing has been known about since the day it happenned. Osama
knew about it long before Moore, and ill tell you why. I have extensive
files about 9-11. Clips pic's and Doc's. In my files, I have the video clip
made by an English newscaster about Bushs 7 minutes. It shows the entire 7
minutes, and shows the goat book. The broadcaster nararates the entire
clip. This was from the UK, and long before Mikes movie.
This just reeks of a conspiracy theorist loon. Keeping all sorts of
files of newsreel to prove a conspiracy. What did you expect Bush to do
yell Holy shit and look completely out of control. He had to give the
public a sense that things were under control and there was no need to
panic. If Secret Services guys had swept in and pulled the President out
do you not think that would have caused panic?
Post by CosmoIt is well known that Moore recieved
Post by Igormoney from terrorist linked to Al Qadea and sold the film to them so they
could use it as propoganda.
That a terrible lie to tell buddy. Mike has never collaberted with terror.
He did not need their money.
Wrong it is documented he said that he did not care if a terrorist group
bought the film to show in places like Syria. He was on record saying he
did not care if the subsidary that bought the film in the middle east
had terrorist ties.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1157503/posts
SACRAMENTO) – The distribution company releasing Michael Moore’s
propaganda flick, “Fahrenheit 9/11,” Front Row Entertainment, say they
won’t reject offers of assistance from the terrorist group, Hezbollah.
The movie industry publication Screen Daily reports:
“In terms of marketing the film, Front Row is getting a boost from
organizations related to Hezbollah which have rung up from Lebanon to
ask if there’s anything they can do to support the film.
Front Row managing director, Gianluca Chacra is then quoted in the
Screen Daily story as saying:
“We can’t go against these organizations as they could strongly boycott
the film in Lebanon and Syria.”
Move America Forward Vice Chair, Melanie Morgan said in response,
“Michael Moore dismisses Americans who are upset with his film and the
impact it has in undermining support for the war against terrorism. At
the same time, his distribution companies are concerned about offending
the sensibilities of terrorists. That certainly gives rise to asking the
question: whose side are you on?”
Separately, in an interview with the Canadian television network, CHUM
TV, Moore said that he is finding resistance from American movie theater
chains as he tries to secure commitments to screen “Fahrenheit 9/11.”
Moore says at least three national/regional chains won’t carry the film
and others are expressing reservations.
An audio clip of Mr. Moore’s comments related to the resistance he is
meeting from U.S. theater operators can be found on the Move America
Forward website at:
www.MoveAmericaForward.org/MichaelMoore"
Post by CosmoAll mIke has to do is send his scripts, and
producers start sending him checks. You know whatts well known, Bush's
collaberation and protection of the state that sposnsered the Attacks, Saudi
Arabia. Wait untill the 28 pages come to light, you'll kill yourselfwhne
you see who you are defending.
28 pages of what? Some internet conspiracy theory? Micheal Moore's
toilet paper?