Transfer is not a dirty word and and anything else isn't a solution

[Pulver]

Transfer is not a dirty word

by Ben Shapiro

August 27, 2003

Raise your hand if you were shocked at the breakdown of
the so-called Middle East "road map." If you are
raising your hand, give yourself a nice, hard slap
across the chops. Maybe that will wake you up from
your reverie of self-delusion.

The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab
enmity for Jews and the state of Israel allows for no
peace process.

The time for half measures has passed. Bulldozing
houses of homicide bombers is useless. Instituting
ongoing curfews in Arab-populated cities is useless.
Roadblocks, touch fences, midnight negotiations and
cease-fires are useless.

Some have rightly suggested that Israel be allowed to
decapitate the terrorist leadership of the Palestinian
Authority. But this too is only a half measure. The
ideology of the Palestinian population is
indistinguishable from that of the terrorist
leadership.

Half measures merely postpone our realization that the
Arabs dream of Israel's destruction. Without drastic
measures, the Arab dream will come true. In the short
term, the establishment of a "Palestinian state" based
in Judea, Samaria and Gaza cuts Israel to the bone. In
some places, Israel would be an unthinkable 9 miles
wide. In the long term, the growth of the hostile
Israeli-Arab population within pre-1967 Israel bodes
ill for the future of the Jewish state. As University
of Haifa professor Arnon Soffer says, "The trends and
indicators all point to an economic and ecological
catastrophe waiting to happen and of the death knell of
the ideological dream of a Jewish state."

Here is the bottom line: If you believe that the Jewish
state has a right to exist,
then you must allow Israel to transfer the Palestinians
and the Israeli-Arabs from Judea, Samaria, Gaza and
Israel proper. It's an ugly solution, but it is the
only solution. And it is far less ugly than the
prospect of bloody conflict ad
infinitum. When two populations are constantly
enmeshed in conflict, it is insane to suggest that
somehow deep-seated ideological change will
miraculously occur, allowing the two sides to live
together.

Unfortunately, this insanity is generally accepted as
"the only way forward."
President Bush accepts it because it is politically
palatable. The Arabs accept it because for them, it is
a Trojan horse. The Israelis accept it because they
are afraid that if they expel the Arabs, they will be
called Nazis.

For anyone who lived through the Holocaust, or who has
relatives who died in it, being called a Nazi is
unspeakably terrible. That is the secret weapon of the
Arabs. Any time the Jews get wise and threaten mass
expulsion of Arabs, the Arabs pull out their big stick,
equating Nazism with Zionism. Their cartoons merge
swastikas with stars of David. Their newspapers call
Ariel Sharon another Adolf Hitler. Their spokespeople
cry "Genocide!" And the Jews cower in fear that they
could be equated with their parents' murderers.

The Jews don't realize that expelling a hostile
population is a commonly used and generally effective
way of preventing violent entanglements. There are no
gas chambers here. It's not genocide; it's transfer.
It's not Hitler; it's Churchill.

After World War II, Poland was recreated by the Allied
Powers. In doing so, the Allies sliced off a chunk of
Germany and extended Poland west to the Oder-Neisse
line. Anywhere from 3.5 million to 9 million Germans
were forcibly expelled from the new Polish territory
and relocated in Germany.

British Prime Minister Winston Churchill was pleased
with the result. In 1944, he had explained to the House
of Commons that "expulsion is the method which, so far
as we have been able to see, will be the most
satisfactory and lasting. There will be no mixture of
populations to cause endless trouble ... a clean sweep
will be made. I am not alarmed by the prospect of the
disentanglement of populations, nor even by these large
transferences, which are more possible in modern
conditions than they ever were before." Churchill was
right. The Germans accepted the new border, and
decades of conflict between Poles and Germans ended.

Arab-Jewish conflict is exponentially more volatile
than German-Polish conflict ever was. And the solution
is far easier. If there was "room in Germany for the
German populations of East Prussia and of the other
territories," as Churchill stated, there is certainly
room in the spacious Muslim states of the Middle East
for 5 million Palestinians and Israeli Arabs. If
Germans, who had a centuries-old connection to the
newly created Polish territory, could be expelled, then
surely Palestinians, whose claim to Judea, Samaria and
Gaza is dubious at best, can be expelled.

It's time to stop being squeamish. Jews are not Nazis.
Transfer is not genocide. And anything else isn't a solution.

©2003 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
Posted by permission

Ben Shapiro's columns are printed nationwide in major
newspapers and websites, including Townhall.com, the
Orlando Sentinel, Jewish World Review and the
Conservative Chronicle. He is a regular guest on
numerous radio shows around the United States and Canada.

Not too shabby for a 20 year old!!!

[n***@columbus.rr.com]

Another very practical solution.

In my lifetime, I'va known and socialized with REAL Nazi's, REAL communists,
REAL Jews, and none of were totally
evil or totally good people. In fact, they were all good people, mostly,
willing to at least hear counter arguments and ideas. Also, again at this
risk of being stoned to death, they have much in common. How? They are all
idealists, seeking a solution to human problems.

Only the useless "politically correct" Americans would believe any were
totally bad people, but then, the "politically correct" are stupid followers
anyway, awaiting their hourly media update on what they believe, as the
Arabs await their daily thinking orders from their Mullas.

Arabs, however, and almost universally totally ignorant people, mindlessly
traped in their religous cult, totally incapable of
independent thought. Mentally, they have never escaped the 11th century.

They are THE threat to survival of the modern world.

Post by Pulver
Transfer is not a dirty word
by Ben Shapiro
August 27, 2003
Raise your hand if you were shocked at the breakdown of
the so-called Middle East "road map." If you are
raising your hand, give yourself a nice, hard slap
across the chops. Maybe that will wake you up from
your reverie of self-delusion.
The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab
enmity for Jews and the state of Israel allows for no
peace process.
The time for half measures has passed. Bulldozing
houses of homicide bombers is useless. Instituting
ongoing curfews in Arab-populated cities is useless.
Roadblocks, touch fences, midnight negotiations and
cease-fires are useless.
Some have rightly suggested that Israel be allowed to
decapitate the terrorist leadership of the Palestinian
Authority. But this too is only a half measure. The
ideology of the Palestinian population is
indistinguishable from that of the terrorist
leadership.
Half measures merely postpone our realization that the
Arabs dream of Israel's destruction. Without drastic
measures, the Arab dream will come true. In the short
term, the establishment of a "Palestinian state" based
in Judea, Samaria and Gaza cuts Israel to the bone. In
some places, Israel would be an unthinkable 9 miles
wide. In the long term, the growth of the hostile
Israeli-Arab population within pre-1967 Israel bodes
ill for the future of the Jewish state. As University
of Haifa professor Arnon Soffer says, "The trends and
indicators all point to an economic and ecological
catastrophe waiting to happen and of the death knell of
the ideological dream of a Jewish state."
Here is the bottom line: If you believe that the Jewish
state has a right to exist,
then you must allow Israel to transfer the Palestinians
and the Israeli-Arabs from Judea, Samaria, Gaza and
Israel proper. It's an ugly solution, but it is the
only solution. And it is far less ugly than the
prospect of bloody conflict ad
infinitum. When two populations are constantly
enmeshed in conflict, it is insane to suggest that
somehow deep-seated ideological change will
miraculously occur, allowing the two sides to live
together.
Unfortunately, this insanity is generally accepted as
"the only way forward."
President Bush accepts it because it is politically
palatable. The Arabs accept it because for them, it is
a Trojan horse. The Israelis accept it because they
are afraid that if they expel the Arabs, they will be
called Nazis.
For anyone who lived through the Holocaust, or who has
relatives who died in it, being called a Nazi is
unspeakably terrible. That is the secret weapon of the
Arabs. Any time the Jews get wise and threaten mass
expulsion of Arabs, the Arabs pull out their big stick,
equating Nazism with Zionism. Their cartoons merge
swastikas with stars of David. Their newspapers call
Ariel Sharon another Adolf Hitler. Their spokespeople
cry "Genocide!" And the Jews cower in fear that they
could be equated with their parents' murderers.
The Jews don't realize that expelling a hostile
population is a commonly used and generally effective
way of preventing violent entanglements. There are no
gas chambers here. It's not genocide; it's transfer.
It's not Hitler; it's Churchill.
After World War II, Poland was recreated by the Allied
Powers. In doing so, the Allies sliced off a chunk of
Germany and extended Poland west to the Oder-Neisse
line. Anywhere from 3.5 million to 9 million Germans
were forcibly expelled from the new Polish territory
and relocated in Germany.
British Prime Minister Winston Churchill was pleased
with the result. In 1944, he had explained to the House
of Commons that "expulsion is the method which, so far
as we have been able to see, will be the most
satisfactory and lasting. There will be no mixture of
populations to cause endless trouble ... a clean sweep
will be made. I am not alarmed by the prospect of the
disentanglement of populations, nor even by these large
transferences, which are more possible in modern
conditions than they ever were before." Churchill was
right. The Germans accepted the new border, and
decades of conflict between Poles and Germans ended.
Arab-Jewish conflict is exponentially more volatile
than German-Polish conflict ever was. And the solution
is far easier. If there was "room in Germany for the
German populations of East Prussia and of the other
territories," as Churchill stated, there is certainly
room in the spacious Muslim states of the Middle East
for 5 million Palestinians and Israeli Arabs. If
Germans, who had a centuries-old connection to the
newly created Polish territory, could be expelled, then
surely Palestinians, whose claim to Judea, Samaria and
Gaza is dubious at best, can be expelled.
It's time to stop being squeamish. Jews are not Nazis.
Transfer is not genocide. And anything else isn't a solution.
©2003 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
Posted by permission
Ben Shapiro's columns are printed nationwide in major
newspapers and websites, including Townhall.com, the
Orlando Sentinel, Jewish World Review and the
Conservative Chronicle. He is a regular guest on
numerous radio shows around the United States and Canada.
Not too shabby for a 20 year old!!!

[Jeffrey Turner]

Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
Another very practical solution.
In my lifetime, I'va known and socialized with REAL Nazi's, REAL communists,
REAL Jews, and none of were totally
evil or totally good people. In fact, they were all good people, mostly,
willing to at least hear counter arguments and ideas. Also, again at this
risk of being stoned to death, they have much in common. How? They are all
idealists, seeking a solution to human problems.
Only the useless "politically correct" Americans would believe any were
totally bad people, but then, the "politically correct" are stupid followers
anyway, awaiting their hourly media update on what they believe, as the
Arabs await their daily thinking orders from their Mullas.
Arabs, however, and almost universally totally ignorant people, mindlessly
traped in their religous cult, totally incapable of
independent thought. Mentally, they have never escaped the 11th century.
They are THE threat to survival of the modern world.

Apparently you spent too much time listening to the Nazis.

--Jeff
--
"an enormous Proportion of Property vested in
a few Individuals is dangerous to the Rights,
and destructive of the Common Happiness, of
Mankind; and therefore every free State hath
a Right by its Laws to discourage the Possession
of such Property."
Ben Franklin

"To delight in war is a merit in the soldier,
a dangerous quality in the captain, and a
positive crime in the statesman."
George Santayana

"Bring them on."
George W. Bush

[Theodore Herzl]

Post by Jeffrey Turner

Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
Another very practical solution.
In my lifetime, I'va known and socialized with REAL Nazi's, REAL communists,
REAL Jews, and none of were totally
evil or totally good people. In fact, they were all good people, mostly,
willing to at least hear counter arguments and ideas. Also, again at this
risk of being stoned to death, they have much in common. How? They are all
idealists, seeking a solution to human problems.
Only the useless "politically correct" Americans would believe any were
totally bad people, but then, the "politically correct" are stupid followers
anyway, awaiting their hourly media update on what they believe, as the
Arabs await their daily thinking orders from their Mullas.
Arabs, however, and almost universally totally ignorant people, mindlessly
traped in their religous cult, totally incapable of
independent thought. Mentally, they have never escaped the 11th century.
They are THE threat to survival of the modern world.

Apparently you spent too much time listening to the Nazis.
--Jeff
--
"an enormous Proportion of Property vested in
a few Individuals is dangerous to the Rights,
and destructive of the Common Happiness, of
Mankind; and therefore every free State hath
a Right by its Laws to discourage the Possession
of such Property."
Ben Franklin
"To delight in war is a merit in the soldier,
a dangerous quality in the captain, and a
positive crime in the statesman."
George Santayana
"Bring them on."
George W. Bush

I think they studied the Nazi's to a point they've become a mirror
image of them. These members of the Zionist cult are only concerned
with taking the homeland from the Palestinians for themselve's.

I agree with the transfer idea but they should transfer all the Jews
from Judea, Samaria and Gaza back to where ever they came from and
kick the IDF out of all areas Israel stole during their aggression of
1967. In their place, put US and UN forces in to protect both
Israeli's from the Palestinian's, which is what Israel is demanding,
and most importantly to protect the Palestinian's from the Israeli's.
This provides security for both and fairness to the Palestinian's who
have been brutally mistreated by the Zionist's since they invaded
their homeland during Israel's attack on Egypt and Syria in 1967.

The Palestinian's were not involved in that war and should not have
been allowed to suffer as a result just because the Zionist's saw an
opportunity to expand their borders at the Palestinian's expense.

It is time to roll back to before that day in 1967 and settle the
matter fairly for everyone, not just Jews.

Theodore Herzl

[Theodore Herzl]

Well, Theodore, your just like every other listist. VERY emotional, but
little in the way of logic or facts.
Firstly, every square inch of this earth has been stolen by one group or
another
several times, over and over. In the process, each time, people are raped
and murdered. Get over it.

Hmmm, I seem to remember a war about 13 years ago where a repressive
regime, similar to Israael, tried to invade a neighboring country
called Kuwait. I'm sure facist Nazi's like yourself supported Saddam
in his pillage, but the r

Many nations today have the ultimate weapon. Including Isreal. They ain't
going nowhere, son. Get over it.

Great, then you should have no issue with others getting the "ultimate
weapon" to protect themselves against the "many nations" you speak of.

If you think I give a half good shit what you think of me, get over it,
sonny. I don't.

I wouldn't expect nor want you to give up have of what it appears
fills your cranium, so please keep it to yourself.

Take your hand wringing, sorry little ass
into some corner, and cry you foolish eyes out, but use your own rag to dry
up on.

<LOL> Such a childish response, does your mommy know you're on the
computer little boy?

You ain't the Pontiff in Rome, sonny.
Nobody really cares about your sorry little stories and advice. This is the
REAL world. Get over it.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Jeffrey Turner

Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
Another very practical solution.
In my lifetime, I'va known and socialized with REAL Nazi's, REAL

communists,

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Jeffrey Turner

Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
REAL Jews, and none of were totally
evil or totally good people. In fact, they were all good people,

mostly,

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Jeffrey Turner

Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
willing to at least hear counter arguments and ideas. Also, again at

this

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Jeffrey Turner

Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
risk of being stoned to death, they have much in common. How? They are

all

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Jeffrey Turner

Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
idealists, seeking a solution to human problems.
Only the useless "politically correct" Americans would believe any

were

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Jeffrey Turner

Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
totally bad people, but then, the "politically correct" are stupid

followers

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Jeffrey Turner

Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
anyway, awaiting their hourly media update on what they believe, as

the

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Jeffrey Turner

Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
Arabs await their daily thinking orders from their Mullas.
Arabs, however, and almost universally totally ignorant people,

mindlessly

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Jeffrey Turner

Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
traped in their religous cult, totally incapable of
independent thought. Mentally, they have never escaped the 11th

century.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Jeffrey Turner

Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
They are THE threat to survival of the modern world.

Apparently you spent too much time listening to the Nazis.
--Jeff
--
"an enormous Proportion of Property vested in
a few Individuals is dangerous to the Rights,
and destructive of the Common Happiness, of
Mankind; and therefore every free State hath
a Right by its Laws to discourage the Possession
of such Property."
Ben Franklin
"To delight in war is a merit in the soldier,
a dangerous quality in the captain, and a
positive crime in the statesman."
George Santayana
"Bring them on."
George W. Bush

I think they studied the Nazi's to a point they've become a mirror
image of them. These members of the Zionist cult are only concerned
with taking the homeland from the Palestinians for themselve's.
I agree with the transfer idea but they should transfer all the Jews
from Judea, Samaria and Gaza back to where ever they came from and
kick the IDF out of all areas Israel stole during their aggression of
1967. In their place, put US and UN forces in to protect both
Israeli's from the Palestinian's, which is what Israel is demanding,
and most importantly to protect the Palestinian's from the Israeli's.
This provides security for both and fairness to the Palestinian's who
have been brutally mistreated by the Zionist's since they invaded
their homeland during Israel's attack on Egypt and Syria in 1967.
The Palestinian's were not involved in that war and should not have
been allowed to suffer as a result just because the Zionist's saw an
opportunity to expand their borders at the Palestinian's expense.
It is time to roll back to before that day in 1967 and settle the
matter fairly for everyone, not just Jews.
Theodore Herzl

[Ariel]

great article.
speaks the truth and conveys the simplest of solution to the arab-israeli
conflict.
this solution will eventually be implemented, just sit and wait...

Post by Pulver
Transfer is not a dirty word
by Ben Shapiro
August 27, 2003
Raise your hand if you were shocked at the breakdown of
the so-called Middle East "road map." If you are
raising your hand, give yourself a nice, hard slap
across the chops. Maybe that will wake you up from
your reverie of self-delusion.
The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab
enmity for Jews and the state of Israel allows for no
peace process.
The time for half measures has passed. Bulldozing
houses of homicide bombers is useless. Instituting
ongoing curfews in Arab-populated cities is useless.
Roadblocks, touch fences, midnight negotiations and
cease-fires are useless.
Some have rightly suggested that Israel be allowed to
decapitate the terrorist leadership of the Palestinian
Authority. But this too is only a half measure. The
ideology of the Palestinian population is
indistinguishable from that of the terrorist
leadership.
Half measures merely postpone our realization that the
Arabs dream of Israel's destruction. Without drastic
measures, the Arab dream will come true. In the short
term, the establishment of a "Palestinian state" based
in Judea, Samaria and Gaza cuts Israel to the bone. In
some places, Israel would be an unthinkable 9 miles
wide. In the long term, the growth of the hostile
Israeli-Arab population within pre-1967 Israel bodes
ill for the future of the Jewish state. As University
of Haifa professor Arnon Soffer says, "The trends and
indicators all point to an economic and ecological
catastrophe waiting to happen and of the death knell of
the ideological dream of a Jewish state."
Here is the bottom line: If you believe that the Jewish
state has a right to exist,
then you must allow Israel to transfer the Palestinians
and the Israeli-Arabs from Judea, Samaria, Gaza and
Israel proper. It's an ugly solution, but it is the
only solution. And it is far less ugly than the
prospect of bloody conflict ad
infinitum. When two populations are constantly
enmeshed in conflict, it is insane to suggest that
somehow deep-seated ideological change will
miraculously occur, allowing the two sides to live
together.
Unfortunately, this insanity is generally accepted as
"the only way forward."
President Bush accepts it because it is politically
palatable. The Arabs accept it because for them, it is
a Trojan horse. The Israelis accept it because they
are afraid that if they expel the Arabs, they will be
called Nazis.
For anyone who lived through the Holocaust, or who has
relatives who died in it, being called a Nazi is
unspeakably terrible. That is the secret weapon of the
Arabs. Any time the Jews get wise and threaten mass
expulsion of Arabs, the Arabs pull out their big stick,
equating Nazism with Zionism. Their cartoons merge
swastikas with stars of David. Their newspapers call
Ariel Sharon another Adolf Hitler. Their spokespeople
cry "Genocide!" And the Jews cower in fear that they
could be equated with their parents' murderers.
The Jews don't realize that expelling a hostile
population is a commonly used and generally effective
way of preventing violent entanglements. There are no
gas chambers here. It's not genocide; it's transfer.
It's not Hitler; it's Churchill.
After World War II, Poland was recreated by the Allied
Powers. In doing so, the Allies sliced off a chunk of
Germany and extended Poland west to the Oder-Neisse
line. Anywhere from 3.5 million to 9 million Germans
were forcibly expelled from the new Polish territory
and relocated in Germany.
British Prime Minister Winston Churchill was pleased
with the result. In 1944, he had explained to the House
of Commons that "expulsion is the method which, so far
as we have been able to see, will be the most
satisfactory and lasting. There will be no mixture of
populations to cause endless trouble ... a clean sweep
will be made. I am not alarmed by the prospect of the
disentanglement of populations, nor even by these large
transferences, which are more possible in modern
conditions than they ever were before." Churchill was
right. The Germans accepted the new border, and
decades of conflict between Poles and Germans ended.
Arab-Jewish conflict is exponentially more volatile
than German-Polish conflict ever was. And the solution
is far easier. If there was "room in Germany for the
German populations of East Prussia and of the other
territories," as Churchill stated, there is certainly
room in the spacious Muslim states of the Middle East
for 5 million Palestinians and Israeli Arabs. If
Germans, who had a centuries-old connection to the
newly created Polish territory, could be expelled, then
surely Palestinians, whose claim to Judea, Samaria and
Gaza is dubious at best, can be expelled.
It's time to stop being squeamish. Jews are not Nazis.
Transfer is not genocide. And anything else isn't a solution.
©2003 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
Posted by permission
Ben Shapiro's columns are printed nationwide in major
newspapers and websites, including Townhall.com, the
Orlando Sentinel, Jewish World Review and the
Conservative Chronicle. He is a regular guest on
numerous radio shows around the United States and Canada.
Not too shabby for a 20 year old!!!

[Theodore Herzl]

Post by Pulver
Transfer is not a dirty word
by Ben Shapiro
August 27, 2003
Raise your hand if you were shocked at the breakdown of
the so-called Middle East "road map." If you are
raising your hand, give yourself a nice, hard slap
across the chops. Maybe that will wake you up from
your reverie of self-delusion.
The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab
enmity for Jews and the state of Israel allows for no
peace process.

We are not talking about Arabs Pulver, we are talking about the long
time residents of Palestine, the Palestinian's. Fortunately a
movement is growing with support in the US to place US troops working
in concert with the UN into Samaria, Judea and Gaza to finally solve
this problem once and for all. It is Israel's illegal occupation and
confiscation that has prevented peace, not the resistance to that
criminal activity by the dwellers upon the land that Israel intended
to steal.

Once the settlers have been removed and UN protection and security put
into place, both sides can begin to negotiate on a even table to find
as solution that is in the best interests of both the people of Israel
and the people of Palestine. Only then will peace ever occur.

People like yourself should be closely watched for even thinking about
repeating the deeds of the Nazi's once again. Did only Zionist Jew's
not learn from the evil of the Nazi's? I ask only because it appears
that only Zionist's like yourself are working to emulate them once
again?

You are such a disgusting piece of biological trash you are not worthy
of being called human. Please crawl back into the sewer from whence
you formed.

[Daniel J. Stern]

Post by Theodore Herzl

The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab enmity for Jews
and the state of Israel allows for no peace process.

We are not talking about Arabs Pulver

Perhaps you wish it weren't so, Mr. Herzl, but Arabs are indeed what's
being discussed.

Post by Theodore Herzl
we are talking about the long time residents of Palestine, the
Palestinian's.

There are no "Palestinians", because there is no such place as
"Palestine". Hasn't been for a very, very long time. Nevertheless, the
question of who holds the greater fault for the current shitmess in the
area can be illuminated by examining the conditions in Israel vs. the
conditions outside but in the vicinity of Israel, the behaviour of Israel
as global and local citizens vs. the behaviour of proximate Arabs, the
consistency of what Israel says to the world and what it says to its own
people vs. the consistency of what Arab leaders say to the world and to
their own people, and Israeli vs. Arab contributions to the condition of
humankind as a whole. The only one of these measures on which Israel has
hands that are even a little bit soiled is that of their local behaviour
-- which is a local matter and clearly an attempt to solve the problem of
homicidal, suicidal Arab terrorists.

Israelis do not strap explosives to themselves and blow up Arab buses and
markets and planes and discotheques, plotting together to block
ambulances' progress to the scene of such terrorist acts. Arabs do.
Israeli leaders do not say "We want peace!" to the world but "Kill them,
drive them into the sea, Allah will reward you with lush young virgin
women when you martyr yourself" to their subjects. Arab leaders do.
Israelis do not live in and attempt to drag the rest of the world back to
the eleventh century. Arabs do. Israel, working with the WORST land in the
whole region, has created a stable, first-world, democratic free country.
The only one in the greater region. The Arabs have not. Israel makes
regular significant contributions to the world's scientific, medical,
technical, political and literary knowledge and thought. What of any value
have the Arabs given the world but grief in the last thousand years? Not a
thing. The world, "Mr. Herzl", is a finite place. "What have you done for
us lately?" may seem selfish and callous, but, well, it's also perfectly
valid. And by that standard, the Arabs look awfully bad.

Post by Theodore Herzl
People like yourself should be closely watched for even thinking about

Y'see, "Mr. Herzl", in a free country like the US and like Israel, people
are allowed to think whatever they want. Arabs do not have that freedom,
and many of them would take it away from those who have it.

DS

[Kel]

Post by Daniel J. Stern

Post by Theodore Herzl

The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab enmity for Jews
and the state of Israel allows for no peace process.

We are not talking about Arabs Pulver

Perhaps you wish it weren't so, Mr. Herzl, but Arabs are indeed what's
being discussed.

Post by Theodore Herzl
we are talking about the long time residents of Palestine, the
Palestinian's.

There are no "Palestinians", because there is no such place as
"Palestine".

Actually, I hate to rain on your parade but there is such a thing as
Palestinians. They were recognised by the UN in 1974 and actually have a
special place at the Security Council.

Hasn't been for a very, very long time. Nevertheless, the

Post by Daniel J. Stern
question of who holds the greater fault for the current shitmess in the
area can be illuminated by examining the conditions in Israel vs. the
conditions outside but in the vicinity of Israel, the behaviour of Israel
as global and local citizens vs. the behaviour of proximate Arabs, the
consistency of what Israel says to the world and what it says to its own
people vs. the consistency of what Arab leaders say to the world and to
their own people, and Israeli vs. Arab contributions to the condition of
humankind as a whole. The only one of these measures on which Israel has
hands that are even a little bit soiled is that of their local behaviour
-- which is a local matter and clearly an attempt to solve the problem of
homicidal, suicidal Arab terrorists.
Israelis do not strap explosives to themselves and blow up Arab buses and
markets and planes and discotheques, plotting together to block
ambulances' progress to the scene of such terrorist acts. Arabs do.

The Israelis don't have to as they have an (American paid for) Army. The
Occupied People do not and have to resort to any measure at their disposal
to fight the Occupation.

Post by Daniel J. Stern
Israeli leaders do not say "We want peace!" to the world but "Kill them,
drive them into the sea, Allah will reward you with lush young virgin
women when you martyr yourself" to their subjects. Arab leaders do.

No, Israel pretends to want peace when, in actual fact, she really wants
land.

Post by Daniel J. Stern
Israelis do not live in and attempt to drag the rest of the world back to
the eleventh century. Arabs do.

ROFLMAO. Israel's greatest argument is that she once existed two thousand
years ago. So who's living in the past again?

Israel, working with the WORST land in the

Post by Daniel J. Stern
whole region, has created a stable, first-world, democratic free country.

With the help of $6 billion dollars a year in aid. Christ, that must have
been hard, eh?

And Israel cannot be considered a democracy as she is not even the State of
her citizen's. She is the State of Jews everywhere, despite the fact that
one fifth of her population are Israeli Arabs. That is not a democracy.

[Ariel]

Post by Kel

Post by Daniel J. Stern

Post by Theodore Herzl

The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab enmity for Jews
and the state of Israel allows for no peace process.

We are not talking about Arabs Pulver

Perhaps you wish it weren't so, Mr. Herzl, but Arabs are indeed what's
being discussed.

Post by Theodore Herzl
we are talking about the long time residents of Palestine, the
Palestinian's.

There are no "Palestinians", because there is no such place as
"Palestine".

Actually, I hate to rain on your parade but there is such a thing as
Palestinians. They were recognised by the UN in 1974 and actually have a
special place at the Security Council.

oh well, another brain dead moron shows up <sigh...>
and what is that special place you're talking about?, would you care
to elaborate?
the bottom line is that "palestinians" are as contrived as Hobbits.
Hobbits also have a 'special place' in many people's hearts (including
mine) but that doesn't mean they exist.
"palestinians" are arabs, end of story. nobody is denying their
condition as arabs, it's just that arabs are self deluded with their
"palestine" hoax.

Post by Kel
ROFLMAO. Israel's greatest argument is that she once existed two thousand
years ago. So who's living in the past again?

it's not living in the past, it's living with reality. ISrael has
always been Hebrew land and there is physical proof. What kind of
proof can "palestinians" provide? maybe a quote on the Quran will do.

Post by Kel
Israel, working with the WORST land in the

Post by Daniel J. Stern
whole region, has created a stable, first-world, democratic free country.

With the help of $6 billion dollars a year in aid. Christ, that must have
been hard, eh?

idiot!
those 6 billion dollars are made of loans paid in full by Israel,
directly or indirectly.
Besides 6 billion dollars is only a fraction on Israel's GDP,
something like 3% of it. Can a nation survive with funds amounting to
only 3% of their total economic base?

Post by Kel
And Israel cannot be considered a democracy as she is not even the State of
her citizen's. She is the State of Jews everywhere, despite the fact that
one fifth of her population are Israeli Arabs. That is not a democracy.

Really? how so?
Don't arabs vote in Israel? don't they have all the rights Jews have?
would you care to elaborate in what instances an Israeli arab has less
rights than an Israeli Jew?

At least read some Dilbert comic strips to illustrate yourself about
the reality of Israel and the Middle East. You're just ridiculing
yourself. Please, read something for gawds sake!

[Kel]

Post by Ariel

Post by Kel

Post by Daniel J. Stern

Post by Theodore Herzl

The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab enmity for Jews
and the state of Israel allows for no peace process.

We are not talking about Arabs Pulver

Perhaps you wish it weren't so, Mr. Herzl, but Arabs are indeed what's
being discussed.

Post by Theodore Herzl
we are talking about the long time residents of Palestine, the
Palestinian's.

There are no "Palestinians", because there is no such place as
"Palestine".

Actually, I hate to rain on your parade but there is such a thing as
Palestinians. They were recognised by the UN in 1974 and actually have a
special place at the Security Council.

oh well, another brain dead moron shows up <sigh...>
and what is that special place you're talking about?, would you care
to elaborate?

In 1974 Arafat was allowed to address the UN.

On Dec. 15, 1988, the United Nations General Assembly adopted Resolution
43/177, essentially recognising the new state of Palestine and according it
observer-state status throughout the United Nations Organisation.

Post by Ariel
the bottom line is that "palestinians" are as contrived as Hobbits.
Hobbits also have a 'special place' in many people's hearts (including
mine) but that doesn't mean they exist.
"palestinians" are arabs, end of story. nobody is denying their
condition as arabs, it's just that arabs are self deluded with their
"palestine" hoax.

Post by Kel
ROFLMAO. Israel's greatest argument is that she once existed two thousand
years ago. So who's living in the past again?

it's not living in the past, it's living with reality. ISrael has
always been Hebrew land and there is physical proof. What kind of
proof can "palestinians" provide? maybe a quote on the Quran will do.

Maybe 1300 years of uninterrupted occupation in which they were clearly the
majority population.

Post by Ariel

Post by Kel
Israel, working with the WORST land in the

Post by Daniel J. Stern
whole region, has created a stable, first-world, democratic free country.

With the help of $6 billion dollars a year in aid. Christ, that must have
been hard, eh?

idiot!
those 6 billion dollars are made of loans paid in full by Israel,
directly or indirectly.

Utter, complete crap. You haven't a clue what you are talking about. It is
aid, quite seperate from any additional loans Israel may ask for.

Post by Ariel
Besides 6 billion dollars is only a fraction on Israel's GDP,
something like 3% of it. Can a nation survive with funds amounting to
only 3% of their total economic base?

Apparently not, as Israel is always going cap in hand for more.

Post by Ariel

Post by Kel
And Israel cannot be considered a democracy as she is not even the State of
her citizen's. She is the State of Jews everywhere, despite the fact that
one fifth of her population are Israeli Arabs. That is not a democracy.

Really? how so?
Don't arabs vote in Israel? don't they have all the rights Jews have?
would you care to elaborate in what instances an Israeli arab has less
rights than an Israeli Jew?

It's not their State. That is enshrined in Israeli law.A democracy cannot be
considered a democracy unless it is the state of all it's citizen's. Israel
gives the appearance of being a democracy.

And are you seriously arguing that Israeli Arabs have similar rights to
Israeli Jews? True, the Israeli-Arab pays the same amount in taxes, but does
he live in similar conditions? Is the same amount spent, for example, on his
health, his education, his housing needs? No, it is not.

Let's hear what Teddy Kollek, former Mayor of West Jerusalem says on the
subject. "Both Levi Eshkol and Menachem Begin promised them equal rights -
both violated their promises. Never have we given them the feeling of being
equal before the law. They were, and remain second and third class
citizens."

The journalist questions this, "And this is said by a Mayor of Jerusalem who
did so much for the city's Arabs, who built and paved roads and developed
their neighbourhoods".

To which Kollek responds, "Nonsense! Fairy tales. The Mayor developed
nothing and built nothing. What did I do? Sidewalks? Nothing! Cultural
institutions? Not one. Yes, we installed a sewage system for them and
improved their water supply. Do you know why? Do you think it was for their
good, for their welfare? Forget it! There were some cases of cholera there,
and the Jews were afraid they would catch it, so we installed sewerage and a
water system".

Maariv. October 10, 1990.

Post by Ariel
At least read some Dilbert comic strips to illustrate yourself about
the reality of Israel and the Middle East. You're just ridiculing
yourself. Please, read something for gawds sake!

[Kel]

Post by Kel
Actually, I hate to rain on your parade but there is such a thing as
Palestinians. They were recognised by the UN in 1974 and actually have a
special place at the Security Council.

Would that be the same UN that allows Libya to chair the Human Rights
council, or a different UN?

No, that's the same UN. And the whole idea of the UN is that it is better to
talk, even to rogue states than to have war. You seem to misunderstand what
the UN is for.

[Lisa R.]

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Pulver
Transfer is not a dirty word
by Ben Shapiro
August 27, 2003
Raise your hand if you were shocked at the breakdown of
the so-called Middle East "road map." If you are
raising your hand, give yourself a nice, hard slap
across the chops. Maybe that will wake you up from
your reverie of self-delusion.
The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab
enmity for Jews and the state of Israel allows for no
peace process.

We are not talking about Arabs Pulver, we are talking about the long
time residents of Palestine, the Palestinian's. Fortunately a
movement is growing with support in the US to place US troops working
in concert with the UN into Samaria, Judea and Gaza to finally solve
this problem once and for all. It is Israel's illegal occupation and
confiscation that has prevented peace, not the resistance to that
criminal activity by the dwellers upon the land that Israel intended
to steal.
Once the settlers have been removed and UN protection and security put
into place, both sides can begin to negotiate on a even table to find
as solution that is in the best interests of both the people of Israel
and the people of Palestine. Only then will peace ever occur.

Maybe the UN can become the new target. I'll hope and pray that it
does.

Post by Theodore Herzl
People like yourself should be closely watched for even thinking about
repeating the deeds of the Nazi's once again.

You mean "Ottoman Turks," not Nazis.

After the founding of the Turkish republic, the Greeks and the Turks
transferred close to two million people between them. The
Greek-speaking Turks went to Turkey, and the Anatolian Greeks went to
Greece. It was uncomfortable and inconvenient for all concerned, and
it was not an ideal solution. But sometimes the only solution is a
second-rate one.

So...if you think people who practice population transfer are Nazis,
then you've just called a bunch of Muslims Nazis.

So put that in your crackpipe and smoke it.

Post by Theodore Herzl
Did only Zionist Jew's
not learn from the evil of the Nazi's? I ask only because it appears
that only Zionist's like yourself are working to emulate them once
again?
You are such a disgusting piece of biological trash you are not worthy
of being called human. Please crawl back into the sewer from whence
you formed.

Well, you've just called Muslims Nazis. I congratulate you on your
perspicacity and fair-mindedness. I would hate to believe that you
hold Jews and Muslims to different standards.

Lisa

[Theodore Herzl]

Post by Lisa R.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Pulver
Transfer is not a dirty word
by Ben Shapiro
August 27, 2003
Raise your hand if you were shocked at the breakdown of
the so-called Middle East "road map." If you are
raising your hand, give yourself a nice, hard slap
across the chops. Maybe that will wake you up from
your reverie of self-delusion.
The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab
enmity for Jews and the state of Israel allows for no
peace process.

We are not talking about Arabs Pulver, we are talking about the long
time residents of Palestine, the Palestinian's. Fortunately a
movement is growing with support in the US to place US troops working
in concert with the UN into Samaria, Judea and Gaza to finally solve
this problem once and for all. It is Israel's illegal occupation and
confiscation that has prevented peace, not the resistance to that
criminal activity by the dwellers upon the land that Israel intended
to steal.
Once the settlers have been removed and UN protection and security put
into place, both sides can begin to negotiate on a even table to find
as solution that is in the best interests of both the people of Israel
and the people of Palestine. Only then will peace ever occur.

Maybe the UN can become the new target. I'll hope and pray that it
does.

Once the Zionist infestation has been removed, there will be no more
war, thus no more targets nor hate for the US policy of supporting the
Israeli regime.

Post by Lisa R.

Post by Theodore Herzl
People like yourself should be closely watched for even thinking about
repeating the deeds of the Nazi's once again.

You mean "Ottoman Turks," not Nazis.

I'm not defending the Ottoman Turks, Nazi's or Zionist's, they're all
disgusting. Are you trying to excuse Israeili's taking like Nazi's
because the Ottoman Turks did? I must say, I fail to see your
arguement other than to correctly equate both the Ottomans and
Israeli's to Nazi's.

Post by Lisa R.
After the founding of the Turkish republic, the Greeks and the Turks
transferred close to two million people between them. The
Greek-speaking Turks went to Turkey, and the Anatolian Greeks went to
Greece. It was uncomfortable and inconvenient for all concerned, and
it was not an ideal solution. But sometimes the only solution is a
second-rate one.
So...if you think people who practice population transfer are Nazis,
then you've just called a bunch of Muslims Nazis.

No argument with that, I'm sure some were Nazi's. But that was then
and this is now. Ethnic cleasing, which is what Israeli's are
proposing, is what the Nazi's tried to do to the Jews so I'm just
suprised to see the former victims now proposing the same thing they
still whine about to this day. Decent people would never consider
such a disgusting practice, so one must conclude that Israeli's are
not decent people.

Post by Lisa R.
So put that in your crackpipe and smoke it.

Post by Theodore Herzl
Did only Zionist Jew's
not learn from the evil of the Nazi's? I ask only because it appears
that only Zionist's like yourself are working to emulate them once
again?
You are such a disgusting piece of biological trash you are not worthy
of being called human. Please crawl back into the sewer from whence
you formed.

Well, you've just called Muslims Nazis. I congratulate you on your
perspicacity and fair-mindedness. I would hate to believe that you
hold Jews and Muslims to different standards.

I do not, I am opposed to both if they practice such things. If you
can show me a current Arab or Muslim country that is performing ethnic
cleansing like Israel, which is not being condemed by the world, I be
on board.

Freedom and Justice must apply equally to all People.

[Daniel J. Stern]

On 29 Aug 2003, Theodore Herzl wrote:

<pro-Arab/anti-Israeli propaganda and babble about "zionism">

Post by Theodore Herzl
Freedom and Justice must apply equally to all People.

No, freedom must apply to all people *who deserve freedom*, and justice
must be afforded AND meted out to those who deserve it, respectively..

Those who behave in a manner such as to threaten the freedom of others
must be denied the opportunity and means to do it again. Those who scream
for justice while simultaneously murdering will get from the world exactly
the justice they deserve. And those who try to bomb, hijack and terrorize
the world back to the 11th century will be roundly shit upon by the rest
of the world.

DS

[Jeffrey Turner]

Post by Daniel J. Stern
<pro-Arab/anti-Israeli propaganda and babble about "zionism">

Post by Theodore Herzl
Freedom and Justice must apply equally to all People.

No, freedom must apply to all people *who deserve freedom*, and justice
must be afforded AND meted out to those who deserve it, respectively..
Those who behave in a manner such as to threaten the freedom of others
must be denied the opportunity and means to do it again. Those who scream
for justice while simultaneously murdering will get from the world exactly
the justice they deserve. And those who try to bomb, hijack and terrorize
the world back to the 11th century will be roundly shit upon by the rest
of the world.

You talking about Sharon? You mean the first century, not the 11th.

--Jeff
--
"an enormous Proportion of Property vested in
a few Individuals is dangerous to the Rights,
and destructive of the Common Happiness, of
Mankind; and therefore every free State hath
a Right by its Laws to discourage the Possession
of such Property."
Ben Franklin

"To delight in war is a merit in the soldier,
a dangerous quality in the captain, and a
positive crime in the statesman."
George Santayana

"Bring them on."
George W. Bush

[Lisa R.]

Post by Daniel J. Stern
<pro-Arab/anti-Israeli propaganda and babble about "zionism">

Post by Theodore Herzl
Freedom and Justice must apply equally to all People.

No, freedom must apply to all people *who deserve freedom*, and justice
must be afforded AND meted out to those who deserve it, respectively..
Those who behave in a manner such as to threaten the freedom of others
must be denied the opportunity and means to do it again. Those who scream
for justice while simultaneously murdering will get from the world exactly
the justice they deserve. And those who try to bomb, hijack and terrorize
the world back to the 11th century will be roundly shit upon by the rest
of the world.
DS

No state is just going to lay down and die on another's claim. Do you
think that the US is going to cave in to Hispanic extremists and carve
out an "Atzlan" in the Southwest especially for them?

Of course it won't.

I judge the Palestinian movement to be going nowhere. They're long on
viciousness, but beyond that, I see no realistic blueprints for a
secular democratic state. Elections aside, I do not anticipate
anything better than a strife-ridden mini-Lebanon coming out of this.

If you want to compare liberation movements, compare the Tibetans and
the Palestinians. You'll notice the difference immediately.

Lisa

[Kel]

Post by Daniel J. Stern
<pro-Arab/anti-Israeli propaganda and babble about "zionism">

Post by Theodore Herzl
Freedom and Justice must apply equally to all People.

No, freedom must apply to all people *who deserve freedom*,

Spoken like a true Fascist. Freedom is not something that you have to
"deserve". Freedom is not something that you have granted. It is every human
beings inalienable right.

[Kel]

Post by Kel

Post by Daniel J. Stern

Post by Theodore Herzl
Freedom and Justice must apply equally to all People.

No, freedom must apply to all people *who deserve freedom*,

Spoken like a true Fascist.

Nope, spoken like a true *realist*.

Fascists often describe themselves as realists.

Post by Kel
Freedom is not something that you have to "deserve". Freedom is not
something that you have granted.

In the real world, those people who consider themselves free to bomb buses
full of innocents, hijack planes full of innocents and crash them into
buildings full of more innocents, strap nail bombs to themselves and set
them off in markets and discotheques full of innocents, and so forth, will
find their freedom seriously curtailed by the civilized world.

You've missed the point entirely of course. It is because their freedom is
curtailed that they are strapping nail bombs to themselves and setting them
off in markets. Are you dumb or what?

[Daniel J. Stern]

Post by Kel
The Palestininas do exist and are recognised and given special status by
United Nations.
It is because their freedom is curtailed that they are strapping nail
bombs to themselves and setting them off in markets.

Bzzt! Contradiction! Thanks so much for playing. If they're "recognized
and given special status" by the UN, they can jolly well go to the UN and
get their grievances addressed in that forum -- just like any other
civilized nation in the 21st-century world. But they're not a civilized
nation, as it seems. They don't want to get their grievances addressed in
a civilized manner, as it seems. They'd rather be petulant and childish
and insist that the rest of the world accede to their demands, and their
equivalent of the 3-year-old's temper tantrum is nail bombs and hijackings
and car bombs. Just as a 3-year-old's tantrum doesn't get the kid what he
wants if his parents are at all qualified for the task, the Arabs' terror
tactics do not make the rest of the world eager to give much a fuck how
wronged the Arabs perceive themselves to be.

DS

[Daniel J. Stern]

The UN has passed numerous Resolutions, Israel just twiddles its thumbs.

Heavens to Mergatroyd, JT! Surely the UN can enforce its resolutions, no?

DS

[Kel]

Post by Daniel J. Stern

The UN has passed numerous Resolutions, Israel just twiddles its thumbs.

Heavens to Mergatroyd, JT! Surely the UN can enforce its resolutions, no?

I think that's a fab idea, Daniel. After all some on them are security
council resolutions. I say the world should invade and impose international
law on Israel as she refuses to do so voluntarilly.

[Kel]

Post by Daniel J. Stern

Post by Kel
The Palestininas do exist and are recognised and given special status by
United Nations.
It is because their freedom is curtailed that they are strapping nail
bombs to themselves and setting them off in markets.

Bzzt! Contradiction!

No, it's not a contradiction at all. The world community recognises the
Palestinians and the Israelis refuse to allow them to have their freedom;
subjecting them to needless road blocks and petty daily humiliations.

Quite how you think that's a contradiction is beyond me.


Thanks so much for playing. If they're "recognized

Post by Daniel J. Stern
and given special status" by the UN, they can jolly well go to the UN and
get their grievances addressed in that forum -

The UN has expressed it's opinion in some 78 resolutions which the Israelis,
with American backing, ignore with apparent impunity.

- just like any other

Post by Daniel J. Stern
civilized nation in the 21st-century world. But they're not a civilized
nation, as it seems. They don't want to get their grievances addressed in
a civilized manner, as it seems.

Their grievances have been addressed in a civilized manner by the UN but
Israel ignores the resolutions.

They'd rather be petulant and childish

Post by Daniel J. Stern
and insist that the rest of the world accede to their demands, and their
equivalent of the 3-year-old's temper tantrum is nail bombs and hijackings
and car bombs.

No, they fight an injustice without an army. That's never going to be
pleasant for any of us to watch.

Just as a 3-year-old's tantrum doesn't get the kid what he

Post by Daniel J. Stern
wants if his parents are at all qualified for the task, the Arabs' terror
tactics do not make the rest of the world eager to give much a fuck how
wronged the Arabs perceive themselves to be.

No, the rest of the world, with the exception of the US, percieves that
Arabs to be the victims of a brutal Israeli occupation, the longest in
modern history. And it's obvious that Israel will never hand any land back
as they continue to build illegal settlements.

[Pulver]

Post by Daniel J. Stern

Post by Kel
The Palestininas do exist and are recognised and given special status by
United Nations.
It is because their freedom is curtailed that they are strapping nail
bombs to themselves and setting them off in markets.

Bzzt! Contradiction! Thanks so much for playing. If they're "recognized
and given special status" by the UN, they can jolly well go to the UN and
get their grievances addressed in that forum -- just like any other
civilized nation in the 21st-century world. But they're not a civilized
nation, as it seems. They don't want to get their grievances addressed in
a civilized manner, as it seems. They'd rather be petulant and childish
and insist that the rest of the world accede to their demands, and their
equivalent of the 3-year-old's temper tantrum is nail bombs and hijackings
and car bombs. Just as a 3-year-old's tantrum doesn't get the kid what he
wants if his parents are at all qualified for the task, the Arabs' terror
tactics do not make the rest of the world eager to give much a fuck how
wronged the Arabs perceive themselves to be.

But kel is just an overgrown 3 year old. Hopefully he
can read and understand the quotes below
"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation
of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing
our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab
unity. In reality today there is no difference between
Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only
for political and tactical reasons do we speak today
about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab
national interests demand that we posit the existence
of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism."
--PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein
—————
The Phases Program/Phased Plan is the basis for
Arafat/Palestinian negotiations with Israel adopted as
the resolution of the Twelfth Palestinian National
Council in Cairo on June 19th, 1974. Arafat has never
wavered from this plan which is the graduated take-
over through lies and deceit of all of what is now
Israel.

"The Phases Program/Plan calls for the establishment
of a Palestinian state on any part of the disputed
territory that becomes available, whether through war
or through a negotiated process starting with the
fledgling negotiations with Israel in the aftermath of
the 1973 Yom Kippur War. In adopting this policy,
the PLO leadership stressed that accepting any part
of Palestine was legitimate as long as the entity
established there would serve as the basis for the
liberation of the rest of the country---that is, the
ultimate destruction of Israel...."
Yossef Bodansky, "The High Cost of Peace", 2002
—————

[Lisa R.]

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Lisa R.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Pulver
Transfer is not a dirty word
by Ben Shapiro
August 27, 2003
Raise your hand if you were shocked at the breakdown of
the so-called Middle East "road map." If you are
raising your hand, give yourself a nice, hard slap
across the chops. Maybe that will wake you up from
your reverie of self-delusion.
The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab
enmity for Jews and the state of Israel allows for no
peace process.

We are not talking about Arabs Pulver, we are talking about the long
time residents of Palestine, the Palestinian's. Fortunately a
movement is growing with support in the US to place US troops working
in concert with the UN into Samaria, Judea and Gaza to finally solve
this problem once and for all. It is Israel's illegal occupation and
confiscation that has prevented peace, not the resistance to that
criminal activity by the dwellers upon the land that Israel intended
to steal.
Once the settlers have been removed and UN protection and security put
into place, both sides can begin to negotiate on a even table to find
as solution that is in the best interests of both the people of Israel
and the people of Palestine. Only then will peace ever occur.

Maybe the UN can become the new target. I'll hope and pray that it
does.

Once the Zionist infestation has been removed, there will be no more
war, thus no more targets nor hate for the US policy of supporting the
Israeli regime.

I see. So once Israel is destroyed, we will have world peace, or
something close to it.

Jooooooooz are responsible for 90% percent of the world's ills. I can
see right through your disgusting, murderous, antisemitism, you rotten
low-life puke.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Lisa R.

Post by Theodore Herzl
People like yourself should be closely watched for even thinking about
repeating the deeds of the Nazi's once again.

You mean "Ottoman Turks," not Nazis.

I'm not defending the Ottoman Turks, Nazi's or Zionist's, they're all
disgusting.

Of course you are, you rotten, forked-tongued puke. You never even
gave the issue of the Turkish-Greek swap any thought until I brought
it up. You probably didn't even know about it. But having found out
about it, you still don't care.
You're so married to your dogma that you aren't even open to
additional information.

You're a closed-minded, rhetoric-spouting puke, and by lumping all
three groups together, you only demonstrate your ignorance of history.

You know nothing, ignorant puke. Your posts are worthless.

Post by Theodore Herzl
Are you trying to excuse Israeili's taking like Nazi's
because the Ottoman Turks did? I must say, I fail to see your
arguement other than to correctly equate both the Ottomans and
Israeli's to Nazi's.

There you go again, demonstrating your ignorance and your
worthlessness.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Lisa R.
After the founding of the Turkish republic, the Greeks and the Turks
transferred close to two million people between them. The
Greek-speaking Turks went to Turkey, and the Anatolian Greeks went to
Greece. It was uncomfortable and inconvenient for all concerned, and
it was not an ideal solution. But sometimes the only solution is a
second-rate one.
So...if you think people who practice population transfer are Nazis,
then you've just called a bunch of Muslims Nazis.

No argument with that, I'm sure some were Nazi's.

How do you know? Did you do an exhaustive study of the Committee of
Union and Progress?

Was the Committee of Union and Progress genuinely Nazified? Or were
they something else?

Have you even heard of the CUP? Let's see what you know about Turkish
history.

Post by Theodore Herzl
But that was then
and this is now. Ethnic cleasing, which is what Israeli's are
proposing, is what the Nazi's tried to do to the Jews so I'm just
suprised to see the former victims now proposing the same thing they
still whine about to this day. Decent people would never consider
such a disgusting practice, so one must conclude that Israeli's are
not decent people.

I've concluded that you're absolutely ignorant of history.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Lisa R.
So put that in your crackpipe and smoke it.

Post by Theodore Herzl
Did only Zionist Jew's
not learn from the evil of the Nazi's? I ask only because it appears
that only Zionist's like yourself are working to emulate them once
again?
You are such a disgusting piece of biological trash you are not worthy
of being called human. Please crawl back into the sewer from whence
you formed.

Well, you've just called Muslims Nazis. I congratulate you on your
perspicacity and fair-mindedness. I would hate to believe that you
hold Jews and Muslims to different standards.

I do not, I am opposed to both if they practice such things. If you
can show me a current Arab or Muslim country that is performing ethnic
cleansing like Israel, which is not being condemed by the world, I be
on board.

Maybe someone can come up with an answer. In the meantime, you've
demonstrated your ignorance of history, puke.

Lisa

Post by Theodore Herzl
Freedom and Justice must apply equally to all People.

[Pulver]

Post by Lisa R.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Lisa R.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Pulver
Transfer is not a dirty word
by Ben Shapiro
August 27, 2003
Raise your hand if you were shocked at the breakdown of
the so-called Middle East "road map." If you are
raising your hand, give yourself a nice, hard slap
across the chops. Maybe that will wake you up from
your reverie of self-delusion.
The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab
enmity for Jews and the state of Israel allows for no
peace process.

We are not talking about Arabs Pulver, we are talking about the long
time residents of Palestine, the Palestinian's.

Do you really believe that you are fooling anybody with
that lie?

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation
of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing
our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab
unity. In reality today there is no difference between
Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only
for political and tactical reasons do we speak today
about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab
national interests demand that we posit the existence
of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism."
--PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein

Post by Lisa R.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Lisa R.

Post by Theodore Herzl
movement is growing with support in the US to place US troops working
in concert with the UN into Samaria, Judea and Gaza to finally solve
this problem once and for all. It is Israel's illegal occupation and
confiscation that has prevented peace, not the resistance to that
criminal activity by the dwellers upon the land that Israel intended
to steal.

You are just a sick jackass who spews all of the arab
propaganda lies and repeats the same garbage over and
over. You are fraudulently using the name of the
founder of Zionism. You are too cowardly to use your
own name or are you ashamed of the disgrace that would ensue?

Post by Lisa R.
I see. So once Israel is destroyed, we will have world peace, or
something close to it.
Jooooooooz are responsible for 90% percent of the world's ills. I can
see right through your disgusting, murderous, antisemitism, you rotten
low-life puke.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Lisa R.

Post by Theodore Herzl
People like yourself should be closely watched for even thinking about
repeating the deeds of the Nazi's once again.

You mean "Ottoman Turks," not Nazis.

I'm not defending the Ottoman Turks, Nazi's or Zionist's, they're all
disgusting.

Of course you are, you rotten, forked-tongued puke. You never even
gave the issue of the Turkish-Greek swap any thought until I brought
it up. You probably didn't even know about it. But having found out
about it, you still don't care.
You're so married to your dogma that you aren't even open to
additional information.
You're a closed-minded, rhetoric-spouting puke, and by lumping all
three groups together, you only demonstrate your ignorance of history.
You know nothing, ignorant puke. Your posts are worthless.

Post by Theodore Herzl
Are you trying to excuse Israeili's taking like Nazi's
because the Ottoman Turks did? I must say, I fail to see your
arguement other than to correctly equate both the Ottomans and
Israeli's to Nazi's.

There you go again, demonstrating your ignorance and your
worthlessness.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Lisa R.
After the founding of the Turkish republic, the Greeks and the Turks
transferred close to two million people between them. The
Greek-speaking Turks went to Turkey, and the Anatolian Greeks went to
Greece. It was uncomfortable and inconvenient for all concerned, and
it was not an ideal solution. But sometimes the only solution is a
second-rate one.
So...if you think people who practice population transfer are Nazis,
then you've just called a bunch of Muslims Nazis.

No argument with that, I'm sure some were Nazi's.

How do you know? Did you do an exhaustive study of the Committee of
Union and Progress?
Was the Committee of Union and Progress genuinely Nazified? Or were
they something else?
Have you even heard of the CUP? Let's see what you know about Turkish
history.

Post by Theodore Herzl
But that was then
and this is now. Ethnic cleasing, which is what Israeli's are
proposing, is what the Nazi's tried to do to the Jews so I'm just
suprised to see the former victims now proposing the same thing they
still whine about to this day. Decent people would never consider
such a disgusting practice, so one must conclude that Israeli's are
not decent people.

I've concluded that you're absolutely ignorant of history.

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Lisa R.
So put that in your crackpipe and smoke it.
Well, you've just called Muslims Nazis. I congratulate you on your
perspicacity and fair-mindedness. I would hate to believe that you
hold Jews and Muslims to different standards.

I do not, I am opposed to both if they practice such things. If you
can show me a current Arab or Muslim country that is performing ethnic
cleansing like Israel, which is not being condemed by the world, I be
on board.

Your problem is that Israel does not practice ethnic
cleansing in spite of what you say, however every arab
League country has. You have another problem that a
brain transplant might help.

Post by Lisa R.
Maybe someone can come up with an answer. In the meantime, you've
demonstrated your ignorance of history, puke.

[Kel]

Post by Pulver

Post by Theodore Herzl

Post by Pulver
Transfer is not a dirty word
by Ben Shapiro
August 27, 2003
Raise your hand if you were shocked at the breakdown of
the so-called Middle East "road map." If you are
raising your hand, give yourself a nice, hard slap
across the chops. Maybe that will wake you up from
your reverie of self-delusion.
The "road map" was doomed from the start. The Arab
enmity for Jews and the state of Israel allows for no
peace process.

We are not talking about Arabs Pulver, we are talking about the long
time residents of Palestine, the Palestinian's.

Do you really believe that you are fooling anybody with
that lie?

The Palestininas do exist and are recognised and given special status by
United Nations. Just because you have found a quote from some hate filled
Zionists does not mean you are right. Any more than listening to some Nazi
would lead us to believe they were right about the Jewish people.

(Hate filled rubbish snipped)

[unknown]

Post by Theodore Herzl
Once the Zionist infestation has been removed, there will be no more
war, thus no more targets nor hate for the US policy of supporting the
Israeli regime.

That's where you are dead wrong:

http://energycrisis.org/de/lecture.html

and especially:

http://foi.missouri.edu/evolvingissues/fallhouseofsaud.html

This insatiable middle east focus on Israel and Jews is a diversion
from the real disaster that is at most a decade away.

[Cyrakis]

<snip>

Post by Theodore Herzl
We are not talking about Arabs Pulver, we are talking about the long
time residents of Palestine, the Palestinian's.

They are arabs, indistinguishable from arabs in all the neighboring
arab nations, Lebanese, Syrians, Egyptians, Jordanians, etc. They are
not a seperate nationality, and they have no history as an independent
nation. Their entire history, all 50 or so years of it, is of an
anti-israeli opposition.

Post by Theodore Herzl
Fortunately a
movement is growing with support in the US to place US troops working
in concert with the UN into Samaria, Judea and Gaza to finally solve
this problem once and for all.

That will never ever happen. America has not forgotten when we sent US
marines to Lebanon to act as peacekeepers. We will not offer up our
soldiers as sacrificial lambs again. Nor will the Israelis allow a UN
force to hold them down while the Palestinian terror forces keep
attacking.

Post by Theodore Herzl
It is Israel's illegal occupation and
confiscation that has prevented peace, not the resistance to that
criminal activity by the dwellers upon the land that Israel intended
to steal.

No, it's the overwhelming racism, intolerance and calculated
manipulation by arab despots that has kept this conflict hot for the
past half century. All the despotic unfree arab regimes have a stake
in keeping Israel "the enemy", it allows them to distract their own
people from the fundamental oppression they live under in their own
countries.

Post by Theodore Herzl
Once the settlers have been removed and UN protection and security put
into place, both sides can begin to negotiate on a even table to find
as solution that is in the best interests of both the people of Israel
and the people of Palestine. Only then will peace ever occur.

No, peace will occur when arab supremacy militants are wiped out like
the nazis of WW2 were wiped out.

Post by Theodore Herzl
People like yourself should be closely watched for even thinking about
repeating the deeds of the Nazi's once again. Did only Zionist Jew's
not learn from the evil of the Nazi's? I ask only because it appears
that only Zionist's like yourself are working to emulate them once
again?

The nazis didn't expel the jews you lying sack of shit. There's quite
a huge difference between banishment, and execution. As the original
article noted, there have been many many examples of mass transfers of
populations, and few of them could be called genocide.

Post by Theodore Herzl
You are such a disgusting piece of biological trash you are not worthy
of being called human. Please crawl back into the sewer from whence
you formed.

Reality check here fuckhead. What part of the war on terror are you
not clueful on? How many terror supporting arab regimes does the US
have to crush before you realize that the world is different now?

[Kel]

Post by Pulver
Transfer is not a dirty word

Ethnic cleansing is not only a dirty word it is a war crime.

[unknown]

Post by Pulver
It's time to stop being squeamish. Jews are not Nazis.
Transfer is not genocide. And anything else isn't a solution.

When this begins I'll start sending Israel my paychecks.